Speaker 1
Good Saturday morning to everybody, and welcome to your next chapter, a production of The Heights at Avery Heights, a one-of-a-kind senior living community centrally located near the most entertaining and historical spots in Connecticut. And it’s never too late to grow and enjoy new realms of the mind and heart. Your next chapter delves deep into topics that will improve the way we think about aging, about senior living and retirement years. It is time to celebrate our seniors and give them wholehearted encouragement to bravely step up to new experiences with optimism, inner peace. and the courage to never give up on growing. And we’re going to discuss some exciting opportunities, important resources for older adults, financial well-being, senior living communities, and emotional health. It’s all hosted by, of course, the Heights Senior Living Specialist, Siobhan Mattingly and myself, Gary Byron. Good morning, Siobhan.

Speaker 2
Good morning. It’s very nice to see you. How was your week? It was good. It was good.

Speaker 1
Yeah.

Speaker 2
Father’s Day action.

Speaker 1
Yeah. And, of course, more time with your new granddaughter.

Speaker 2
Yeah.

Speaker 1
You’re still beaming, as you were last week.

Speaker 2
I can’t help it. I fell in love with her instantly.

Speaker 1
Of course you did.

Speaker 2
I know.

Speaker 1
Like you did with your grandson a year and a half ago when he was born.

Speaker 2
Yeah.

Speaker 1
We’re talking off air, but you made some really great points about it’s a different vibe, a different feeling when you’re the grandmother and not the parent, right?

Speaker 2
You’re like the fun. You know, you’re the fun. Yeah. You can just have fun and then just be like, okay, he’s crying, she’s crying, go change

Speaker 1
him. Time to hand her back over.

Speaker 2
Nap time. Yeah.

Speaker 1
Yeah.

Speaker 2
Yeah. But we try to babysit too. I mean, I try to, you know, help out as well, but.

Speaker 1
It’s harder from, you know, an hour away, an hour and a half away.

Speaker 2
I can spoil. I don’t have to yell, you know.

Speaker 1
Wait till they get older.

Speaker 2
You take care.

Speaker 1
Wait till they get older. Do you want to talk about spoiling?

Speaker 2
I know. They’re wicked spoiled, though. They have everything.

Speaker 1
How do you think you’ll be different as a grandmother as opposed to a mom?

Speaker 2
Well, it’s different for me because I had my daughter at 42. And so it’s kind of like I’m different with her as a parent. Do you know what I mean? So I think I’m going to be kind of the same way. I’m just more aware, more insightful, more connected. Do you know what I mean? I was a young parent with my son. And so I was just more into like, what do I want to do? And me and me and me. Where now I’m an adult. And I pay attention more to. You know, and I see the bigger picture. You know, if they’re upset, I’m not just looking at, oh, you’re upset. I look at, you know, I go back, I check in. You know, just more aware of the consequences of my actions.

Speaker 1
I’m so happy for you.

Speaker 2
Yeah. How, what’s new over at the Heights? Well, we have the summer concert series. Yes, you do. Evening Under the Stars. So we have, and the community’s welcome. The general public is welcome. So it’s June 27th from 630 to 8. We’ve got Jukebox 45. People can dance. And then July 26th from 630 to 8, we have the electrics. So, yeah, it’s a really great event at Avery Heights. Tons of people show up from the area, from the community, but also it’s really neat to see, like, the cottagers. They just come outside and just have their chairs sitting there and their little picnics, and it’s kind of cool.

Speaker 1
And it’s live music.

Speaker 2
It’s live music, and it’s, yeah, it’s nice. And we’ve got a couple different rain dates, too.

Speaker 1
Like a band. A band that’s playing live. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2
It’s really nice. It’s nice.

Speaker 1
Dancing and singing along to the songs I’m sure everybody’s already familiar with.

Speaker 2
So people have their dinner and then they kind of go on down and enjoy.

Speaker 1
You know, this is such a happening spot, the Heights at Avery Heights. Yes. Folks, if you haven’t requested a tour yet, I don’t know what you’re waiting for.

Speaker 2
Or come to the concert.

Speaker 1
Come to the concert. You guys give tours with meals included. Yes, exactly. You know what? One of the things you were emphasized a while back that resonated. is you’re not, here’s a contract, or here’s a sign. You’re just, hey, take your time. Visit other places. You’re so confident that you ask, that you tell them, go check out our competitors. And then you’ll end up coming back here.

Speaker 2
It’s a big decision. We actually just had a tour the other day, and they had toured maybe like eight or nine places, did some tours after us, tours before us, and they were like, I overheard them talking to the mom, And they were like, by far, Mom, this was our favorite. And that’s always just, I mean, by far. Yeah, I can understand why. If you’ve been to eight places, and then, you know, that was really nice to hear.

Speaker 1
Eight places, maybe that’s a little too many. I’d say go to, you know, three or four. Yeah.

Speaker 2
There’s a lot out there now. It’s like, it’s overkill.

Speaker 1
And you’re non-profit, you know? Yes. Oh, man, what a place. Your grounds. I mean, I’ve been there.

Speaker 2
The other day I was doing a tour, and there was a deer right outside the window. Little baby deer eating, like, little leaves. It was almost like a theatrical production. Cue the deer, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 1
the deer.

Speaker 2
It’s like I planned it, you know, and he’s eating, nibbling off the tree. And I’m like, okay, we’re done with the deer.

Speaker 1
In Hartford, nonetheless. Yes. Right?

Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, it was beautiful.

Speaker 1
So I find it interesting. The second your guest came in, I’m like, I remember him. The only thing is I got my timing was wrong. I thought it was back in the fall that he was here. It turned out back in February under a different capacity. Why don’t you take the honor to introduce him and our topic for this morning?

Speaker 2
It is my great honor to introduce Dr. Kevin Manning. He was here back earlier this year talking about elder financial health, and he actually did a presentation at our community as well, which is very well received. And today he’s talking about a super important topic, driving safely for older adults. This is like the biggest question, biggest dilemma when people come in for tours. It’s like, how do I take the keys? Or, you know, do I take the keys? So there’s a lot of questions around that, and he is here to hopefully enlighten and answer those questions. Hey, guys.

Speaker 1
Great to see you again. Great to have you. Thanks for having me. Great to have you back. For our listeners, though, that may not have, maybe have heard the show back in February that you were on, just tell us briefly a little bit about yourself, what you do over at UConn Health Center.

Speaker 3
Sure. So I’m a clinical neuropsychologist at UConn Health. I am asked to often evaluate patients about problems with thinking and memory and make a diagnosis. With that sometimes comes decisions related to independence and automobile driving and determining whether somebody is fit to drive. And as an aside, I have a longstanding interest in automobile driving. My dissertation was on driving capacity in older adults. So it’s a very important topic that’s near and dear to my heart.

Speaker 1
Hey, I know people middle-aged that shouldn’t even be driving, let alone some aging seniors. All right. There’s a lot of research that have been done on this topic. And, I mean, you know better than anybody. What were you most surprised to learn with the data that was obtained through this research?

Speaker 3
Yeah, you know, so I think clearly we know that with increasing age comes age-associated factors that increase your risk of having a traffic accident or making driving errors, like cognitive changes or visual changes. That’s clear. What I like to think about, though, is how can we maintain or enhance somebody’s driving capabilities to keep them on the road longer so that they maintain that autonomy, that independence? That’s where I like to see the research going, and that’s some of the stuff that we do at UConn Health.

Speaker 1
Is there any data that support there are more accidents with older adults, or is there maybe another demographic that the numbers are higher? Don’t say women.

Speaker 3
Don’t say women. And if you do, do it behind you.

Speaker 1
Move my chair over. Move your chair over closer to my mic.

Speaker 3
You know, so when investigators look at the total number of miles driven, so older adults do drive less. But when you control for that, older adults are at an increased risk of having traffic accidents. Yes. And there’s factors that contribute to that. So with changes in age, there’s changes in cognition and particularly around processing speed of visual information. So in the clinic, something that we do is we administer tests of visual processing speed, and we can actually tell a patient, you know, because of your performance on this test in the clinic, we think that you’re falling into this category where you’re at increased risk of having an accident or making driving errors. Now, I’ll say this is not what I do. I sort of comment on this, but then I refer people to a specialist. So when I think about a specialist, I think about somebody who is really a driving rehabilitation specialist, traditionally an occupational therapist by training. And this is an evaluator who’s going to do some tests in the office similar to what I just described, these visual processing speed tests, but then also take people out on the road and evaluate their driving. similar to what happened when we took a road test to get your license. Where I see this as really important is that this specialist, yes, is making a medical decision about yes or no, is this person safe to drive, but they can also relay strategies or ways to compensate and say, okay, I have Mrs. Smith. Mrs. Smith is making some errors, but I think if we work on these errors, we’re going to correct them and keep her on the road for a longer period of time. That’s where I see the real benefit of going to an evaluation like that.

Speaker 1
You know, I would imagine, because I’ve heard this myself from my own grandmother, who’s long passed away and was driving up until 95. I’ll talk about the independence in a moment. Yeah. They think it’s their right. It’s my right to drive. It’s a privilege. It’s not a right. It’s a privilege. Exactly. It’s not a right. There’s no right for you. Yeah. You know, because you can pose a danger to yourself and others by being on the road. Absolutely. Let’s talk about that because the experience that I went through and that my father went through, his mother, my grandmother at the time, was she felt that she was giving up part of her independence. She wants to go to the market. She goes to the market. She wanted to go to church. And you said it. It’s all right within town. She wasn’t even hopping on the highway. She wasn’t going to – my father lives in Avon. My grandmother lived in Wethersfield. She wasn’t driving over. My father would come over to her. She wouldn’t drive. But it was just the stuff in town. Yes. The only things that she would go to. The post office, the bank, the market. You know?

Speaker 3
So, you know, there’s a statistic that I cite because – exactly. I hear from patients, well, I only drive locally or I restrict my driving.

Speaker 2
I’m only driving during the day during the day in my neighborhood.

Speaker 3
And the statistic is that most traffic accidents happen within five miles of your house. So it’s not that people are driving distances on that trip to Florida that something happens. It’s that local area concern.

Speaker 1
So, Doc, how do you tell somebody who has been independent for most of their life? Yes.

Speaker 3
such a hard question. Well, I mean, but it’s the golden question. It is. So I like to think about it in terms of we want to do everything we can to make sure you, the patient, are driving as long as possible and are as independent as possible. So I talked to them about that point, but also the point that we want to make sure you’re safe and other people on the road are safe. I do talk about driving in terms of privilege. It’s not a right. And in the end, it’s really the DMV that’s responsible for regulating their privilege. Physicians and other clinical providers can provide input, but it’s the DMV’s decision. So it’s not my decision as a provider. I give recommendations. And my first recommendation is what I was describing is really when it comes time to decide whether somebody is fit to drive or not, I refer them for this on-road driving evaluation. And I talk to them acknowledging that this is a loss. This is a loss of independence. This is a loss of autonomy. And how can we compensate for that? So how can we work with either a taxi company to schedule regular visits? It could be pricey. It could be pricey. There are actually community volunteers, though, through different communities, have different setups. For example, West Hartford has senior drivers who volunteer their time to pick up older adults and drive them to appointments in the grocery store and things like that. So you can find people who will volunteer their time without substantial costs to drive you places. But, yeah, I acknowledge with my patients how difficult this decision is. It’s not an easy decision to come to.

Speaker 1
I mean, of course we want people to maintain autonomy as long, as long as possible. but we also want to ensure safety of the individual, right, and our largest society as a whole. So what are the age-associated factors that increase risk of accidents?

Speaker 3
Yeah, so cognitive changes. From a cognitive standpoint, that means a decline in certain processing speed abilities. Okay. That means visual changes. Somebody’s useful field of view, sort of their peripheral vision, how fast can they detect sort of stimuli in their periphery. There are computerized tests to assess that. There are physical changes. So when we think about older adults, there’s this increase in frailty. There’s an increase in their ability to – a decrease in their ability to turn their neck sideways, right? So you think about those types of physical changes that lead to a decrease in flexibility can have implications for just checking behind you when you’re backing out of the driveway or checking your side view mirror. Those types of changes are what we talk about when we think about an increase in age-related associations with driving errors or poor driving. And again, to your point, we know that depression increases when we take people’s driving licenses away or they relinquish their driving license.

Speaker 1
Because it’s associated to their independence.

Speaker 3
Yes. It’s associated from a conceptual level. It’s associated with their independence, right? It’s this abstract concept that now I am dependent on somebody else and I’m not as autonomous as I once was. But also from a practical standpoint, they don’t have as much access to socialization. They can’t get out, potentially, to that senior center, or they can’t get out in their community. So that’s why I think about places like Avery Heights and other independent living centers that are so important for seniors because the community is right there and they don’t need to drive somewhere.

Speaker 1
All right. So from – and you look at it from a clinical perspective. Now, someone listening to this, what are some signs that they should be more, they should start to notice? What are the telltale signs?

Speaker 3
Great question. So near misses, scratches on the vehicle. Are mom and dad coming home with scratches on the vehicle? Are there near misses when they’re driving where they’re almost about to have an accident but don’t? Is there pedal confusion? Have you observed or has somebody else observed sort of them seemingly confused about which one’s the gas and which one’s the brake? those are signs in addition to that things we’ve talked about in the past is you know this this concept of cognitive aging and cognitive changes so is mom or dad experiencing the onset of a dementia or the onset of mild cognitive impairment do they have a clinical diagnosis related to memory concerns or thinking concerns those are the types of things i would ask people about to start to think about, well, we might need to pursue this further and evaluate driving in order to keep that person safe.

Speaker 2
And it’s scary, too. I remember a story where the guy was driving around in the summer with the dog in the car and he had the windows up and the dog ended up dying. Yeah. Yeah. Because it was hot, really hot. Yeah. And so there’s a lot of horror stories when it comes to driving beyond just the accident piece of the portion.

Speaker 1
Folks, you are listening to your next chapter, a production of The Heights at Avery Heights, one of a kind senior living community, along with Siobhan Mattingly. I’m Gary Byron. Our guest this morning is Dr. Kevin Manning from UConn Health Center. You know, it’s funny, or maybe it’s ironic is a better word. You associate accidents with reckless driving, and you see people get pulled over for speeding. I mean, my goodness, speeding in Connecticut on our highways and byways is just incredible. But I think something that’s just as dangerous is a person, and it’s usually, though, not always, but usually elder, and they’re driving way below the speed limit. And not just on a back street, but on a highway. And I’m like, buddy, you’re going to get yourself killed. Get out of that lane and get over to the far right lane. Because, I mean, look behind you and people are just cutting, because they’re upset. They’re zooming by. You’re not supposed to pass on the right. You’re causing people to pass you on the right and then cut you off because I’ll tell show them. They don’t realize, they probably don’t even realize until after the fact that the person’s elderly. But that’s a fact as well, is driving so slow that you’re a hazard.

Speaker 3
Exactly. And so that’s a known hazard. There’s also a known hazard of older adults are more likely to be involved in traffic accidents when turning left in unprotected turns. Sure. And similar to what you’re describing is this decline in processing speed, really, and visual attention where it’s harder to judge or estimate the speed of an oncoming vehicle or perhaps even a vehicle behind you, as you’re describing.

Speaker 2
Or driving on the wrong side of the road. Oh, man. We run into that a lot.

Speaker 3
Aren’t we?

Speaker 2
Yeah.

Speaker 3
You know, something to think about is, you know, just to go back to our point earlier about a cognitive diagnosis. More and more, you know, as our population ages, we’re encountering older patients who have a diagnosis of something called mild cognitive impairment or early dementia, Alzheimer’s disease. And we see patients who continue to drive with those diagnoses. And I’m not making the point that having that diagnosis excludes you from driving. What I’d like to say, though, is if you do receive a diagnosis like that, you and your family should start to have a conversation that at some point in time, you’re going to need to relinquish this driving license. And it makes sense, in my mind, to start to have that conversation earlier rather than later.

Speaker 1
Kev, I’m glad that you bring this up because I’m running out of time, and that’s exactly where I wanted to go next. This has got to be a difficult question or even proposition to initiate. But if someone is concerned about their own driving or maybe a parent’s driving or grandparent’s driving, like I experienced with mine, what’s the first step? What do they do? What’s the first step that you recommend them to do?

Speaker 3
So first step is talk to their physician or other clinical provider and express those concerns. And if it were me, I would also say I’m interested in either for myself or my loved one in having a clinical driving evaluation. And this is a driving evaluation with the occupational therapist, the driving rehabilitation specialist. Start to put that on the provider’s radar about something of concern. With that comes a conversation as a family. And for children to talk with their parents about what they’ve observed and how they’re concerned and get parents’ feedback.

Speaker 1
You know, what you say makes sense, but you know what I’m going to bring up next, right? I sure do. The resistance that you’re going to be met with. For human beings, right? Yeah. I mean, that’s not an easy deal.

Speaker 3
And certainly there’s going to be pushback in some cases. Yes. And, you know, with some illnesses, there’s a lack of insight. So people might not recognize that weakness. But I do think it makes sense to talk about it as a family and acknowledge. I think you would be surprised if you were able to have that conversation with your grandmother, right? And say to her, I know this is a source of independence for you. I know how much you value this. But can we speak honestly about the fact that I want to keep you safe and somebody else safe on the road?

Speaker 2
Gary’s running out the door. No. He’s going to eat his pie and then be like, Grandma, you look great. No, no, no.

Speaker 1
Don’t misinterpret me. First of all, you’re the expert, and I’m not even disagreeing with you. I’m not saying that you’re wrong. Actually, I mean, who am I to say that you’re wrong? You’re right. I don’t disagree with you. All I’m saying is easier said than done, mister.

Speaker 3
And that’s why, to your point, that’s why this clinical driving evaluation is so very important.

Speaker 2
Somebody else, the professionals, yep.

Speaker 3
Because that provider is going to give you a yes or no decision about whether you or that loved one is fit to drive. Yep. That doesn’t happen everywhere also. I just want to make that point for folks listening that you can’t just go to any driving instructor and get that evaluation. That driving instructor would take you out of the road, and they might comment on your driving, but they’re not going to give you that hard and fast yes, no, are you safe to drive? And that’s this driving evaluation.

Speaker 1
You’re right, and we all know you’re right. Yeah. But they – I don’t want to come full circle here, but it comes back to it’s my right. I’ve been driving before you were even a glimmer in my eye. Yeah, sure. And it’s like, no, it’s not your right. I’m a taxpaying – nothing to do with that. Yeah. You know, it’s a privilege, not a right, you know, but they don’t understand that. Yeah.

Speaker 3
So for patients who are really resistant to sort of relinquishing their driving, you know, and they might not want such an evaluation, the physician can write a letter to the DMV requesting that that person relinquish their driving privileges. The DMV will then send a letter to the patient. If the patient is still driving, still holding on to that, I’ve had families come up with different scenarios. And this depends on what works for you and your family. I’ve had families say to a loved one that the car doesn’t work anymore. I’ve had families disconnect the battery. I’ve had families hide the keys. So there are other options to consider. I’m not advocating misleading our patients, obviously. Repossession.

Speaker 1
You didn’t pay the bill

Speaker 3
The car’s gone

Speaker 1
Somebody stole it

Speaker 3
That might work for somebody too But what I do want to say is You have to make a decision as a family Pros and cons Balance that independence But also the safety of your loved one Which we all know you’re right And the safety of other people on the road Do something

Speaker 1
Don’t wait Thank God my grandmother did not get into an accident What happened was she was less than a mile from her house and she was lost. Yeah. You know, and there was no accident. Right. But, I mean, she pulled over and she talked to a cop. Coincidentally, so we had a cousin on that side of the family who was a cop in the same town. It wasn’t him. But she goes, oh, you know, I’ve got a cousin who’s, oh, quickly got him over and was like, I’ll take care of this. That doesn’t, granted, that doesn’t occur for everybody. That’s just luck. Listen, I’ve got one minute remaining. Any other helpful hints or tips that you can help us with, our listeners, with this topic?

Speaker 3
Yeah. Just if you’re concerned about somebody’s driving, start to observe the driving. I mean, how many people actually don’t drive with their parents anymore, aging parents? Get in the car with them. See what their driving’s like.

Speaker 1
Firsthand.

Speaker 3
Have them drive you to the grocery store. Follow them in your car and see what their behavior’s like. How fast are they going? Are they that person who’s driving or how slow are they going? You know, take some behavioral observations yourself. Yeah.

Speaker 1
That’s great advice. I am. Oh, I’m so glad that we had you in this morning. What exceptional advice that you provided. I want to thank our guest who twice now knocked it out of the park from UConn Health Care Center. Dr. Kevin Manning. Really appreciate that. We’ve got to come back on again. Yes. We’ll see him four months from now. Different topic. Or a year, depending on who you ask. No, no, I don’t want to wait that long. Folks, you’ve been listening to the latest edition of your next chapter, Senior Living, with Siobhan Mattingly, the Heights Senior Living Specialist. Avery Heights, by the way, is a beautiful senior living community nestled within 43 acres of nature, right in the heart of the junction between West Hartford, Newington and Hartford. Now, those who live there have access to a full continuum of care, including independent and assisted living, right to memory care and even more. All you got to do is hop online and visit AveryHeights.org. That’s AveryHeights.org. Or call this number, 860-953-1201, 860-953-1201, to learn more about their own special brand of community, unlike really any other in Connecticut. For Siobhan Mattingly, I’m Gary Byron. Again, thanks so much for listening to your next chapter. Until next Saturday, have a good one, everybody.