Speaker 1
So, hello, my name is Siobhan Mattingly, and I’m really grateful to be here this morning. I am a senior living specialist here at the wonderful Heights at Avery Heights. Excuse the noise in the background.

Speaker 1
We are renovating a ton of stuff, and so the guys are doing their work today, which we’re excited about. But what I’m excited about is my wonderful two guests. So I have the amazing Tifa Snow.

Speaker 1
She’s a dementia education specialist, and she created the program Positive Approach to Care. And I have the equally amazing, sorry, Tifa, Holly Taylor Fry, who’s our memory care director for the Heights at Avery Heights. And I’m grateful that you’re both here to talk about this very, very important topic today.

Speaker 1
But to start off, I’m going to have you guys kind of tell me a little bit about yourself or tell the audience a little bit about yourself. And Tifa, we’ll start with you.

Speaker 2
So I am an occupational therapist by training. I have been in the field for over 43 years. So I’m old.

Speaker 2
I’m also over the age of 65. So when we say older adult, I am one. So I bet I’m a young, older adult, as people will say.

Speaker 2
I have worked in a whole variety of settings. If there’s a setting in healthcare, I’ve probably worked in it over those 43 years. my expertise and interest has always been in cognitive kinds of things. So when I was younger, I worked in developmental disabilities. I did work with stroke, head injury, rehab.

Speaker 2
I did spinal cord injury. I did a little bit of burns. And yeah, my expertise, though, is working with, at this point, older adults and adults who are living with a variety of brain changes, whether it’s mental health changes, depression, anxiety, or mental health conditions, maybe schizophrenia or those sorts of things, or and dementia, changes that are neurodegenerative.

Speaker 2
So that’s my background. And I have a company positive approach and a nonprofit,

Speaker 1
the Snow Approach Foundation. Nice, nice. I feel like there’s so much more, but I like it. I like it. Holly, go ahead.

Speaker 3
Hi. So my name is Holly Taylor-Pry and I have been in the field of therapeutic recreation as my beginning and have learned through working with skilled nursing homes and more recently assisted livings, the need for dementia care. So I chose to kind of go a little more on the specialized field of developing and supporting dementia needs because I’ve seen the great need that is out there and understand that our population is only aging and that there is going to be a great need for educated caregivers.

Speaker 3
So I’m very fortunate to be able to be working at the Heights, at Avery Heights, for the past five and a half years and developed and designed the program that we currently have, which is the Burnham Resonance. And it’s our memory care program. And again, my background is therapeutic recreation, but I’m very specialized in the dementia process.

Speaker 3
And I’m grateful to be meeting this deepest know in person today. So I’ve been following her for a long time and took advantage of the opportunity to learn more and continue my mission.

Speaker 1
Nice, nice. And the key word I got from you, many words, but educated. And that’s what’s important, that education, rather than not anyone can just be the memory care director.

Speaker 1
It’s not someone you pluck out of the crowd. It’s someone that has to have that background and education. That’s what we’re here to talk about today.

Speaker 1
Tepa, tell me about the Positive Approach to Care program.

Speaker 2
Yeah. So I started the 20, the program over 20 years ago, because what I got to happen and what I saw happen in communities where I was working or at a, you know, at a university where I was working, is that we were not preparing people to be good supports for people living with dementia. We were not preparing professionals. We weren’t preparing family members. We weren’t preparing, We weren’t preparing anybody. Frankly, we were saying, oh, it’s awful. It’s dreadful. You know, oh, man, when this happens.

Speaker 2
And we weren’t even preparing people living with dementia to live with dementia because we were making assumptions and we weren’t doing careful assessments. And what I found out is there were some very basic sort of key skills and observations you could make that would allow you to be more positive and to do things that were helpful, not harmful. to see things differently and to realize engagement in living is essential. And that’s where people like Holly come in because without engagement, what are you doing? Just waiting.

Speaker 2
People are not good at waiting. And so they choose to do things because they don’t like waiting. And when we have to wait, we get sort of ornery. And what we do, I don’t know about you guys, you guys might go to sleep, but I get on when I have to wait. So waiting is not really an option and being forced to do something, not a good alternative for human beings. So positive approach to care is a way of getting permission to engage and to do sometimes very intimate things and sometimes very social things and sometimes very individual things. But permission.

Speaker 1
And I love the fact that you hit it right on the nose that we weren’t prepared. You know, I think that people are so afraid of getting training. It’s even like managers.

Speaker 1
It’s like, oh, you’re the manager now. What am I doing? And it’s like, all of a sudden, you’re supposed to know how to manage people because you know how to do a specific job.

Speaker 1
And it doesn’t work that way. We need to get training. We need to get prepared, especially with dementia and Alzheimer’s. And trying to, like you said, I am in awe of the expertise of someone is just having a tough day, like you said, and kind of acting out. And I’m in awe when someone can calm that down in a respectful, trusting way. Because when I do the tours, because that’s my job here to do the tours, show people around, that’s what I say. You know, we get to know our residents in the memory care on an intimate level so that we can take care of their needs, their needs, not, you know, a book says, oh, at this stage of dementia. No, their specific needs because they’re people. They’re not just people with dementia, they’re people. And like you said, who I’m the most impatient person in the world. I actually bring my phone with me and I always have a show that I can watch now. So if I’m waiting, I put that on on mute and I’m watching it and the line goes and I’m not like, you know, freaking out. So I am, and I can’t even imagine if I, you know, end up getting, I’m going to be like one of those, you know, banging on the table.

Speaker 1
Where’s my whatever it is. They’re looking for your dinner. Yes.

Speaker 2
They are late. Yep. That’s not okay.

Speaker 2
You know what? Yep. Would you rather have tomato juice or something else to get started?

Speaker 1
Yep. Exactly. Just like you would anyone.

Speaker 1
That’s what I like about our memory care as well. And Holly’s program, because when you go in there, you wouldn’t know it’s a memory care because it’s just people. It’s just people.

Speaker 2
Well, and basically they are just people. Yes, you know what I mean? We put labels on people.

Speaker 2
It’s like, they’re just people, but they’re little some special considerations that all of us hope we never have to live with. But in fact, we might. You never know.

Speaker 2
Yep.

Speaker 1
Treat them well, because it might be you. Yeah, exactly. Which is, you’re an older adult.

Speaker 1
I just turned 59 since we’re disclosing ages and I’m an older, 58. I always mess up. I never keep track of my age.

Speaker 1
I’m 58. So I am now an older adult as well. And I’m leaning towards that AARP.

Speaker 1
I’m not sure it’s on the 70s. But the 70s, the new 60s. And 58, 48, right?

Speaker 2
Is that what that is?

Speaker 3
Listen, that’s why my mission is so important. I need the youth to be educated. We’re all getting there.

Speaker 1
That’s an awesome segue, actually. Tepa, tell me, and I think you kind of went over it a little bit, but the mission statement of positive approach to care. Because I’m reading your website, which is phenomenal, by the way. I just want to get these things out there because I think it’s a lot of the stuff you said are very important on that.

Speaker 2
Yeah, it is. You know, really, our mission is to help people build their awareness, knowledge and skills to support individuals and a community so that we can have an integrated community. We want a community that welcomes all.

Speaker 2
We don’t want to have this. Well, you know, she’s demented. It’s like, oh, where did we get that word? You know, well, some people are living with dementia, some are living with diabetes.

Speaker 2
Some people are living with vision changes. So the idea of building awareness, knowledge and skill and optimizing what each of us can do when we come into community. Then all of us are teaching one another what it is to live and how can we work together to make that happen?

Speaker 2
So we have a lot of teachers who are living with dementia and they’re part of our training program. So it’s important to have people living with various dementias as part of training, because that’s who you’re going to be working with.

Speaker 1
Right. And you’re right. I mean, diabetes, cancer, whatever you have, we make allowances for that. Oh, you can’t have sugar. So we you know, if I’m you’re coming to my house, I’m going to put out a sugar free dessert. we should do the same thing for someone with dementia you know introduce ourselves rather than do you remember me you know i learned that from your your recordings way back when i first started in this industry like 16 years ago i remember that because i would probably be one of those people you don’t remember me i don’t remember i don’t remember you know when you went

Speaker 2
on vacation when you were young it’s just like i’ve never seen you before i don’t i don’t know who you

Speaker 1
are exactly i know when i go to the mall i have a better uh empathy i guess because you know i’m 58 years old so i have 58 years worth of people and people will come up to me they’ll look completely different and not that i you know i aged as well and they’re like you and they’re looking and i’m like and i’m hoping the key words the key words oh you got kids oh west harford you know my daughter okay so now we can have a conversation but when they come up and go with sandra i’m like

Speaker 2
yeah yeah exactly i mean i can’t trust you know teaching at college teaching at a university

Speaker 1
teaching another university college we know this work exactly it’s like uh sandra from

Speaker 2
the sandra institute it’s like it’s like um tell me more tell me more and i might

Speaker 1
Trying to put a puzzle together, right? Or keep walking, right? Anyway, all right, we’ll get back on track.

Speaker 1
So back to your website, which is absolutely amazing. Talk about the resources, which there are so many, but talk about the resources on your website. I send tons of people to your website.

Speaker 1
I mean, it couldn’t be more comprehensive, but tell me about some of the resources for caregivers and for people that have dementia.

Speaker 2
Yeah, so we try really hard. I mean, what’s your relationship with dementia? Are you living with it? Are you trying to support someone living with it? Are you a professional? Are you an organization? And once we figure that piece out, once you say, I’m this, then we say, well, here are some resources. And some of those resources could be a consult, a free half hour consult. It can be free YouTube content. It can be free TikTok content. We can have problem-based issues that people may want to bring up.

Speaker 2
We have blogs, we have posts, we have, you know, you name it. And we try incredibly hard to make sure that we have some free in all categories. And then we have very low cost options for people who, you know, might want to watch a webinar or a video or a training segment. So we have things that people can look at. So we have a laundry list of people who are living with various dementias.

Speaker 2
And then we have courageous conversations. And so you can watch a courageous conversation with someone living with Lewy body dementia, who says, you know, here’s my big challenge. There are people that come into my house at night and my wife can say all she wants to that they aren’t real people, but they sure look that way to me.

Speaker 2
And it’s like, yeah, so let’s talk about what’s helpful for that. I mean, that’s an example of we have those available so that if we have someone who’s like. What is it like to live with Louie Buddy? Click on it.

Speaker 2
Find out because that’s somebody living with Lewy body, talking about living with Lewy body with me. And so we can go through some questions people tend to have about Lewy body as an example, simple example.

Speaker 1
So valuable. It’s the whole day in the life to, you know, walking in their shoes. But that’s so valuable because I think a lot of times and I’m definitely accused myself of this is before I got into this industry, you know, it’s just, oh, they have dementia.

Speaker 1
You know, it’s just like, excuse me, you know, and not thinking that there was someone there, you know, like, and like you said, here’s these people who are courageous conversations, living with it, being able to tell me what, what, you know, what’s going on. And I think for someone, especially the caregivers, I know a lot, it’s the saddest thing when it’s the spouse and especially people have been married 60 years, 50 years. I, you know, it just, it’s so sad.

Speaker 1
And how do I, and how do you do that?

Speaker 2
You know, like when the person says, no, what are you doing here? Do I know you? I wonder if you know me.

Speaker 2
Yeah, I’m Teepa. And the person goes, oh, no, that’s interesting. You know, I’m married to Teepa.

Speaker 2
That’s an odd name. You have the same name as she does. And I, I do.

Speaker 2
Now let me ask you, is she a good wife or troublesome? Because what it means is, oh, this person recognized, yes, yes, TIPA is a familiar name, but this is an old face. So that tells me right away, wow, hippocampus is having trouble with new data.

Speaker 2
Probably has old data. So they can show me a picture of me on the wall and go, see, this is us on our wedding day. And it’s like, wow, she is cute.

Speaker 2
Who doesn’t want to hear that?

Speaker 1
Absolutely. I like that. I like that a lot. I’m going to use that actually to some of the spouses that kind of lightens it up a little bit. And who doesn’t want to have that conversation? Who doesn’t want to know exactly what the person is thinking about you? And that is, you know, that’s going to be so encouraging and intimate in a way as well, kind of on a different level and learn stuff that you probably didn’t know that they’re thinking about you. Hopefully all positive,

Speaker 3
But that’s exactly I mean, sorry, but I just wanted to share that during the support group. That’s kind of the kind of skills I am teaching with the spouses to say, you know, let’s let’s look at this with a different set of lenses and kind of give you a different perspective. And just educating that, you know, you have a historical background to your loved one.

Speaker 3
So now we got to kind of change the dynamic a little bit in order to empower you to be supportive of them. And that’s what we’re doing every time. And it’s great.

Speaker 3
You know, we do have more couples, TIPA. That’s what we’re seeing most recently. So now I’ve got a lot of date nights happening and they’re a lot of fun.

Speaker 3
Yes.

Speaker 2
Find out what their favorite music was and where they like to go to listen to it. And you’ve got a good start on a project.

Speaker 1
I love the wives, the wives club that we have in our memory. And I tell the new folks that come in, their spouse we have a new resident that’s going to be moving in and I told her I said we got to get you in the wives club because they go on she just lit up I’m like they and they do they go on dates they go on walks they go to activities they do so much and then they meet together I always see them and they’re always helping people out and they’re part of the support group and I think that helps them um like what Holly’s saying to kind of cope with this but in like a positive a positive way as opposed to you know what was me it’s kind of like oh let me help her out because she’s starting this process. So it’s, it’s, um, let’s just gears a little bit. So Tifa, tell me a little about the training for senior living communities. Like what, what do you,

Speaker 2
what’s that like? Well, we have several options. We have individuals can do just what we call champion training, which is building your own skillset, building your knowledge and awareness.

Speaker 2
So a community could say, you know, we have a couple of people working in memory care. We four classes over the course of a few weeks. And it’s a two hour program online. And you learn sort of what do you do to respond? Why do we turn sideways? Why do we put our hand up and out?

Speaker 2
Why do I do this with you? Because if I do this with you and you shake my hand, it means I have permission to touch you. And when I get to your side and I go, oh, take a look over here. We both have something we could look at together. And then come with me using the visual cues, verbal cues.

Speaker 2
And so that very beginning thing is just a champion set of courses that we have. And then after that, we have individual certifications for trainer, for coach, for consultant, for engagement leader, because leading engagement is the most important thing that can happen in a community. that everybody be well engaged staff family volunteers administration this isn’t an activities person this is the engagement leader because we got everybody’s got to fill their day and we’ve got to figure out how to match everybody up with needs and abilities so that I’m running something here and the staff member who does personal care stuff can take Mary up the hall and go do what they need to do. And then Mary comes back and I go, I am so glad you’re here. I could use your help.

Speaker 2
Let’s move this table over here because Mary needs to burn off some energy. This whole idea of creating special practice that works together. So we train and then we coach and then we also have consultants and then we have engagement leaders. When you put all that together with champions, wow, that’s a powerhouse. And that’s what we look for when we start talking about a PAC designated organization is you’ve got the puzzle pieces coming together and people are working hard. People will make mistakes. That’s the way life is. But we’re working toward this community belief in the value of each human being who’s in that community. Yep. Yep.

Speaker 1
And I think that’s what we see. That’s why I’m in love with our memory care. Holly, I’m going to pull you in now. Tell me what you learned from the training. And by the way, Holly is like trying to be all calm over here, but she’s totally, you’re like, you’re like the Beyonce for Holly. Just so you know, she’s like, and she’s going, just so you know.

Speaker 2
I always tell her we’re doing a little fangirling thing because the octave goes up one and then the chill happens and then the octave goes back.

Speaker 1
I’m going to let her let it out when we’re done. Just so you know. Wow. Okay. You know I adore you.

Speaker 2
Here’s a little zen. I’ve got a little zen oil going for you, Holly.

Speaker 3
Thank you. I think I’m going to go hit some lavender later. That’ll be fine.

Speaker 3
So, I mean, I just really knew that, you know, education is important and we had COVID. And what was I going to do with my time to continue my journey and my mission to basically continue to support those I serve? And I know, you know, TIPA, that, you know, the Positive Approach to Care program was something that I thought really could benefit the industry I serve.

Speaker 3
And that is exactly why I took the course. And I felt, you know, it was great because it gave me something to do. I was focused.

Speaker 3
I was participating in the mentorship and appreciating the handholding. And yeah, I was. And grateful for it.

Speaker 3
The whole team that I worked with is amazing. And knowing that I always had the opportunity to go back for that support is amazing. And, you know, now that we’re kind of getting freer and not wearing our mask as much, I can certainly start to spread my wings and share the education.

Speaker 3
And I kind of had to adapt, as we all have said throughout this process. We have to adapt and modify and go where the needs are. So I wasn’t able to do groups in the middle of COVID, but I took the opportunity to kind of do one-on-ones and smaller spaces.

Speaker 3
Yes. And I didn’t stop with just the staff. I saw the needs and wherever the needs were, I interjected education.

Speaker 3
And that’s how I owned it, you know, because I know that the more you take control and support and the better supports are going to be put in place for those we serve. And I haven’t done it with just stuff. We’ve done it with the family members, the caretakers, the first responders, the administration.

Speaker 3
I’m always talking and saying, you know, this is where we’re at. This is what we need to be looking towards and supporting the needs of. And I think that truly is what I’m seeing as far as the blossoming of my program, because I am very proud of what we’ve got going on here.

Speaker 3
But there’s more work to be done. There’s always more work to be done. And, you know, the challenge is always going to be there.

Speaker 3
So the more people I can get in their ear and talk and train and show and demonstrate, that’s that’s what I’m seeing. And it’s great when I can take that step back and say, oh, it’s working. And I don’t have to say a word.

Speaker 3
I can just step back. And that wouldn’t have been true 10 years ago. That wouldn’t have been true 20 years ago.

Speaker 3
20 years ago, I was horrified with things. And I was like, what is happening? So I knew that there was a mission for me.

Speaker 3
And that’s exactly. So after I did your training, I was super excited to trial it out, of course. And I had one individual.

Speaker 3
I could always get her out of her bed. She loved her bed. Loved her bed.

Speaker 3
And everybody knew it. And we supported that to a point, you know, she had to get up for meals. That was important. I should say prior to this, she only ever ordered a hamburger for a meal because that’s all that was familiar to her. So I took all of that and, you know, put that in the back of the head and said, okay, let’s, let’s, let’s make a different trajectory here. We can diversify a little bit.

Speaker 3
10 minutes it would take I could easily I could cajole her it would take me 10 minutes absolutely I could get her going the staff would always know come to me if you need support I’m here for you let’s you know work on this together if they can’t get her going hey Holly we can’t get we can’t get Jean up today so okay no problem this is my opportunity I get to work on my skills I

Speaker 2
You have to practice my students.

Speaker 3
That’s exactly what it was. I was so excited. I’m like, I can’t wait.

Speaker 3
I can’t wait to see how this is going to go. And I walked in there like, ring the bell because we got to get her washed up and everything. I said, okay.

Speaker 3
And I’m prepared. I’m like, okay, this is great. Here we go.

Speaker 3
Sure enough, there she is. I said, good morning. I put my hand up.

Speaker 3
I said, it’s Holly. And I put my hand out. Sure enough, she reached right forward.

Speaker 3
I had her up. We walked right to the bathroom. We’re going to come right on over here. And she’s like, okay. I rang the bell. They’re like, what’s wrong? I’m like, no, she’s there. They’re like, what are you talking about? So they’re like, that was like a minute and a half. I said, I know. I worked on my skills. I said, look what’s happened. And they’re like, that’s amazing.

Speaker 3
So I was over the moon. And just from that minute on, I’ve been like going like gangbusters to just impart the knowledge and share the education because there is a better way.

Speaker 2
And, you know, yeah. So here you go. So have you been able to get anyone else to help Jean in the way you help Jean so that they don’t need to call Holly?

Speaker 3
Yes. You’re not going to believe this. Yes. Yes, exactly right.

Speaker 3
I did. Because honestly, that was the last time they ever did.

Speaker 2
Isn’t that exciting? For me, that is the most exciting thing is when they come in and say,

Speaker 3
guess what? It worked. I was excited to share the story. I’m like, she’s gonna love this.

Speaker 2
You got it. Yeah, that’s a huge story. Because it’s not about you becoming the Lone Ranger.

Speaker 2
It’s about you building the team. And that’s what we believe so strongly in is the need to support one another to get better. Because this disease is not going anywhere fast.

Speaker 2
And we’re going to have a whole lot more folks that need our help for a long time. I mean, this is so complicated. You know, we talk about dementia.

Speaker 2
It’s a great big umbrella. We have umbrella cards on our website for free because there’s about 120 different conditions under those umbrellas.

Speaker 1
So, you know, no quick fix here. I think the hardest that I see is when someone’s young. You know, it is really hard. It is super hard. 59 years old. About 19. Oh, yeah. Wow. About 27.

Speaker 2
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think, you know, what we know about dementias, we think they’re for people over the age of 50 or so and it’s like oh no I work with folks who are 40, 30, 22. I mean the reality is this condition is not just about getting older although you know that’s a high risk factor. There are other things that come into play so yeah it’s super important that realizing we can run into this anywhere. So maybe having some skills might come in handy. Yes. Even if it’s not dementia, even if it’s autism, or even if it’s something different, it’s a different brain.

Speaker 2
And maybe I should pay attention. Yeah. And what I like is, because Hallie’s a train the trainer,

Speaker 1
too, that she’s training all of us, because, you know, I’m engaging with people. I had an incident yesterday where someone was wandering, and it’s like, what do you do? And so he’s like, oh, my wife’s over there and I knew that wasn’t his wife I was like oh so I engaged another staff member because I was you know on the tour and I was like hey he needs to go you know and just like you know keeping him a part of it and not just doing that you’re in the wrong place what are you doing you

Speaker 2
know just oh you were thinking that was your wife yes oh she’s over there okay yeah I like her you are you know what though I think you know what I’m gonna have you work with with Holly here because I’m pretty sure I saw your wife. Your wife is married, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I’m pretty sure Holly, take John because I think John is looking for down this way. But you know, that woman does sort of look like her. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s just to have that training myself,

Speaker 1
because, you know, if I’m walking around, I’m not just going to walk over somebody or if someone is in need, I need to react as opposed to just, oh, that’s not my job, you know, because people it’s not safe. This person’s not in the right spot in, you know, he can get distressed. Yeah. So, so it’s, so it’s important. Let’s give some advice. I’ve got some wealth of information here and knowledgeable people. We’ll start with Holly. Holly, what advice can you give to caregivers? What’s like that one, one thing? And we’ve had a lot of good stuff here for sure,

Speaker 3
but what’s the advice you can give? The advice I have is, is basically, you know, go into it with planning on making a difference every day, no matter how small. I mean, it can be making someone smile. It could be helping someone who’s feeling distressed and anxious. And how can we, you know, turn that around? Is it offering them a change of scenery? Is it offering them a cup of tea? It’s the small things that make the biggest impact at times. And I think that’s really what I would impart to a caregiver that, you know, you don’t have to solve the whole puzzle today in this moment, you know, take it one step at a time and build from there. I like that. Tifa, what do

Speaker 2
you think? Mine is, it’s tough because it’s, you know, one message for everybody, but here’s what I’d say is have somebody ask you this question, how are you doing today? Here, here, or here?

Speaker 2
And it’s really important as a carer that we know, how am I doing? And if I’m feeling here, how can I share that? If I’m sort of here, how can I look at that and figure out what’s driving that for me?

Speaker 2
And if I’m here, how can I get the support I need moving forward? Because before I move forward, I can take care of this. Because walking into a relationship when you’re here is a really risky proposition.

Speaker 2
So if I’m feeling really miserable about what’s happening for you and what’s happening for us, I need some support and help before I come into your presence. Because otherwise I’m grieving you. And yet you’re right there. I mean, you’re not like gone. You’re here, but you’re different.

Speaker 2
And so that’s where I will say, let’s pull back on the impulse to help. And let’s pause for a second, figure out where you are as a caregiver, so that we know that you’re in a good place to do this thing we’ve asked you to do, which is support and care for someone.

Speaker 1
Yeah, I think, you know, getting the support you need. That’s what I tell all my tours. You know, if you don’t get it here, that’s fine.

Speaker 1
I give them resources, get support. You cannot do this. I took care of my mom and we had the same relationship.

Speaker 1
So it was even harder. And I can’t imagine if you have a close connection and deep love and years of relationship, you know, it’s way harder. And so get that support.

Speaker 1
That’s the one. I did it too late. And that’s how I got in this industry is that I didn’t get the.

Speaker 1
And once I got the support, I was like a little kid. I was like, well, you’re going to do what for me? You know, and all of a sudden, yeah, I was making better decisions.

Speaker 1
And it was like, oh, you can agree. So, yeah. And like you said, take care of my emotions because I was just a mess.

Speaker 1
And I couldn’t go into that room with someone who was, you know, not really, you know, relationship wasn’t there. It wasn’t and not be in a good mood on top of all the childhood stuff. I’m like, yeah, that’s so I pulled back.

Speaker 2
Letting go of what’s not possible to really recognize, oh, this is what is possible. Now, it looks like there’s nothing there, but there’s something right in front of you that’s possible. It’s just not what you had before and not what you necessarily want.

Speaker 1
We got to get there. I like it. Yep.

Speaker 1
So what’s next for PAC? I love saying PAC. Positive.

Speaker 1
Yeah.

Speaker 2
No, PAC. Yeah, we call it PAC too. It’s sort of like a group of people.

Speaker 2
We are starting to do more in-person things again. We’re keeping virtual. We are not letting go virtual because we found out that people from all over the world could benefit from coming together on Zoom.

Speaker 2
I think a lot of us figured that out. But we are going back into the world and doing things in the world. We just opened up our space in Hillsborough, which will be where people come to do some training and learning and experiencing.

Speaker 2
And we’re doing some local stuff to try to build the community of teachers that we have here. People living with dementia and their families who folks can come and learn from and then take it back to their communities. Because folks are open to the idea of being a model so that folks can come and really practice skills, not pretend practice skills, but really do it if you want to.

Speaker 2
Or virtually, we still have those options and those availabilities, but we’ll be all over the world in 2024. We already have programs scheduled for the UK and Australia and Iceland and Chile and Hawaii and Alaska. Yeah, we’re traveling again.

Speaker 1
I love it. I love it. I love everything that you’re doing. And tell me the website. How can people get in touch with you?

Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s pretty simple. It’s my name. www.tipasnownospaces.com. That’s the easiest thing.

Speaker 3
Holly, what’s next for our wonderful memory care? Oh, wow. Well, I think we’re just going to continue to start expanding and getting back out into the community space.

Speaker 3
And we haven’t been able to do that through COVID times and, you know, branching out further, developing more since our population of men has increased. We’re going to continue to grow our men’s group. It’s raining men.

Speaker 3
It’s raining men.

Speaker 2
Maybe create some specific spaces for them to go hang out that are women-free zones. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 3
I saw those women-free zones. And I actually have a male support. So he’ll be running them.

Speaker 3
So that’s exactly what’s going to happen. So I’m excited for all that. And we’ll see where our couples clubs can go.

Speaker 3
That would be fun as well.

Speaker 1
Yes, there’s a lot of great couples. Yeah, agreed. Well, thank you both so much for being here.

Speaker 1
I’m super excited to get this out into the world. And hopefully this will, for both of you, help further your mission and your goals and kind of get that out there. And I could be a part of that.

Speaker 1
I’m really grateful to interview both of you. It’s seriously an honor. This was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1
Thank you. All right. Thank you.

Speaker 1
See you next time. Thank you. Thanks, everybody.