Speaker 1
Good morning, everybody. Welcome to your next chapter, Senior Living with Avery Heitz, along with Siobhan Mattingly. I’m Gary Byron. When starting the search for senior living, whether it’s for ourselves or for our loved one, it comes with many questions.

In the industry, these are often called what ifs. As we age, it is very challenging to have a crystal ball to figure out what could go wrong and how it will be handled. Now, today in your next chapter, what we’re going to do is review those what ifs of senior living and provide potential solutions to ease the mind of caregivers and their loved ones.

But first, let’s bring in Siobhan Mattingly. Siobhan, good morning.

Speaker 2
Good morning.

Speaker 1
It’s nice to see you.

Speaker 2
It’s great to be here.

Speaker 1
I can’t wait because I’ve been waiting and I’ve been waiting for weeks now. I’ve known that this show is in the pipeline and today we’re finally here. So let’s start with, listen, we got to start with the ground level here. Tell us about Avery Heights first, and then we’ll take it from there.

Speaker 2
Yeah, awesome. So Avery Heights has been around for about 60 years. We’ve been around for a long time.

But that’s great because then we have the experience, and clearly we’ve been taking care of people for a while. We are known as a continuum of care campus, so we have everything. We have assisted living, independent living.

We have memory care. We have skilled nursing and intermediate care as well. So really it’s kind of that one move for your loved ones, and they’re there, and they can follow along the steps, and we’re there to take care of them.

In addition, we have V&A and we have private duty aides also. So people really like that, that all the care is there for them and they don’t have to worry about going here or there. We also have a wonderful social workers and folks that can help out with the search and also help you out with once you’re there, you know, whatever your loved one yourself may need.

Speaker 1
Let’s learn about Siobhan. Tell me about yourself and how you you. How did you get into this?

Speaker 2
Yeah. So as most people, I got into the industry because my mom got sick. So my mom ended up with dementia.

And I knew nothing about this industry. I was completely green. I was lost.

And unfortunately, I got really taken advantage of. And financially, my mom got taken. It was a lot of stuff that went on.

And so I’m in sales. I’ve been in sales for like 25 years. And so, you know, when I was taking a tour of the place where she ended up, the guy was actually moving on.

He was actually being promoted. And I was like, wow, what you do is really cool. I was fascinated that he could do marketing and sales and help people.

I’m like, perfect combination for me. And he was like, well, you know, my position is open. And I was like, really?

And it was in West Hartford and I applied for it. And ironically, the guy who was the executive director, I worked for him at the farm shop. This is totally dating myself now in Bloomfield years ago.

I remember that place. Yes. He was the regional director.

And so he walks in the room and he goes, whoa, because I was going by Siobhan. Yeah. My nickname was Siobhan.

So he didn’t put the two together. And I got hired like on the spot. And I’ve been in the industry ever since.

And I absolutely love it. I love helping people not to go through what I went through, which was a lot. It was a lot.

Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, you don’t have to get too personal with your story. But I mean, to to to endure this, to watch somebody in their mind, you know, start to deteriorate.

In a way, it’s good that you’re working in this field because you can relate to the average person who comes through the door and they don’t know what to expect. Oftentimes they’re in the beginning phase or stages of this. But I like when, you know, I remember once telling a friend of mine, I said, I love my dentist.

And he’s like, oh, my goodness, I hate dentists all together. And I go, what do you like about your dentist? I like my dentist because he’s had five root canals.

Seriously, right? You think that you should go to a dentist who has none, who’s never had a cavity. They know, you know, they’re the role model.

They’re the ones that you should be, you know. He’s such a down-to-earth person. He says, no, I know exactly what you’re feeling.

I know what you’re going through. And that was the purpose of me saying why I love my dentist so much. And I’m sorry to relate it to that, but it’s so true.

Yeah, it is true. When there’s a person that you’re working with who completely understands every aspect of it, you’re actually able to do more than quote unquote sales. Right.

You’re able to relate. Yes. And that, I think, when you’re on the other side of that counter, that’s what you’re looking for.

Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. And people do, you know, there’s a lot of guilt and shame when you’re doing this. And a lot of times people feel like, you know, they’re not doing their best for their family members.

A lot of people are estranged from their parents. And all of a sudden now they’re thrown into being their caregiver. And I can relate to all of that.

And it is nice for the person to know. They’ll start telling the story and then go, oh, you probably think this. Oh, you probably think that.

And I always go, I’m not thinking anything. All I’m thinking is how can I help you? And I don’t want you to feel that guilt and shame as you go through this process.

because really caring for your loved one, people always think, oh, I’m not really caring for them. Well, caring for them doesn’t always have to mean hands-on. Caring can mean making sure that they’re in the right place to be taken care of.

And I think that’s the problem. People feel like, oh, I need to care for my parent, meaning that I have to be bathing and showering them or whatever it may be. That’s not true.

Caring for them is making sure that they’re taken care of and other people can do that. And it really does take a team. You really need a team.

Speaker 1
Well, there’s different levels of dementia. I mean, somebody could have dementia and the onset of dementia where they’re just forgetful, but they’re living independently. Yes.

Sadly, it’s just going to deteriorate over time. But you get there progressively. It doesn’t happen with the snap of the finger overnight.

And I would imagine that there are different levels of care. And we can get to that shortly. I’m going to ask him maybe a silly question.

So I’m asking you for your forgiveness ahead of time. And in fact, maybe a lot of our listeners right now may be wondering this. But why is Avery Heights choosing to do a radio show?

I understand some of your message, but obviously this is a lot more than just, oh, yeah, you need to be aware of this or be aware of that, to the point where you actually have a radio show. This is intriguing.

Speaker 2
Yeah. For me, it’s almost on a personal level, too. Because, again, that knowledge is power.

So many people go into this and they go into the wrong place, maybe the wrong attorney, the wrong assistant living, whatever it may be. And again, they get taken advantage of. It’s sad to say that people take advantage of people that are trying to care for their parents, an older adult.

But it’s true. I mean people will put you in a situation where you have the wrong apartment, the wrong care, try to sell you a bunch of stuff that you don’t need. And it’s really sad.

And also not give you all the information. You know, there’s a veteran’s benefit out there. And I’ve had people come in that have their loved one as a veteran and they have no knowledge of that.

And they’ve been on several tours at other places. And I’m like, how can you not know that? Why would someone not give you that information?

And that’s not all people. I mean, there’s some wonderful people in this industry. But like any industry, people get taken advantage of.

And it’s a ton of money that people can waste doing that.

Speaker 1
What would the average person listening to this right now, what would they be surprised to know about Avery Heights or about the type of service that they would receive from Avery Heights? And what would they be surprised to learn? What are some of the misconceptions, if you will, in your industry?

Speaker 2
I think some of the misconceptions are that you, you know, I’m trying to have to think on this. So I think some of the misconceptions are that you have to have a certain amount of money. You know, you don’t have to have thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars.

There are opportunities out there for financial assistance for it. There’s wonderful assisted livings out there that people can take advantage of where they don’t have to – they can take advantage of the federal money or state money and things like that. So I think they’d be surprised.

Now, that’s not for our place in particular. I guess I’ve gone off. But I’m trying to think of what they would be surprised about our particular location.

I think they’d be surprised that we do what we say. And I know that sounds really strange. And that’s what I like about working at Avery Heights.

I’ve been in this industry for probably like almost close to like 20 years now since my mom was sick. And so I love the fact about working with them because if I say to them, we’re going to do A, B and C, we’re going to do A, B and C. But if we can’t do A, B and C, we’re going to own it as well and then come up with an alternative because we can’t be perfect. Right.

Speaker 1
It’s not even so much of being perfect. Life happens. Sometimes situations are very fluid, you know, and as there there’s a lot of moving parts.

And we don’t have a crystal ball. We can forecast. I mean, you see it on television every day.

Tomorrow is going to be beautiful. Right. And by all indications, all these Dopplers that they have, oh, we’re looking at all these different models.

And then you change the channel, and that weather forecaster says it’s going to be beautiful. Right. And what happens when you wake up the next day?

It’s cloudy with a chance of rain. Yeah. So it’s everything.

It’s, oh, there’s always moving parts. There’s always fluidity. And just when it looks like you’re going in one direction, life happens.

Things get in the way and it ends up taking a turn and going in another direction. And I would think that it’s something that you have to be prepared for.

Speaker 2
Yeah. And that’s really what I do when people come in for the tour. They want me to kind of have that crystal ball and I don’t blame them.

But I’m very straightforward. I’m like, I can’t. They’re like, again, that’s where the what ifs come in. And I’m very straightforward with the fact that you never know what’s going to happen.

And you have to be able to ebb and flow. But not only that, you have to give your loved one a chance. When people come in, sometimes they’re like, oh, she’ll never do that.

Oh, she’ll never go for that. Oh, she’ll never move. And one of the things, sometimes I’m like, well, bring them in.

And they sit down and the loved one’s there for the tour. And I take mom for the tour and she’s looking around. And I literally had the person sit at the table, the mom, and she’s like, well, what do we have to do next?

Or whatever it may be, the mom or the person that they thought would never want to do it is the one moving it forward. And it’s always surprising to me. I just had this morning.

I had someone who came and looked at our cottages, and she was just like – she was just so happy with the fact that, first of all, the other residents let her visit their cottage. There was also like – she unfortunately has cancer, and it’s in her mouth, so she can’t eat a lot of solid foods. So we always invite people to lunch.

So our dining manager was wonderful. I was like, well, maybe we could do mashed potatoes. But then the dining director came up with a ton of stuff.

Oh, she could have soup. She could have, you know, we can mash this up. She could have chicken salad.

Oh, we can do this. You know, and she came over with this menu for this woman and she was just like, I’m saying mashed potatoes. She was blown away that the dining manager came out to see her.

Speaker 1
That’s why she’s the manager of the dining.

Speaker 2
Yeah. And so the nieces were like, oh, my gosh, she’s never going to move forward. It’s all speculative.

Next thing I know, I’m getting this long email and she’s like, send me the lease. You know, so I think that always give your loved one a chance. assume, oh, they’re never going to go in the pool or they’re never going to do the art class because older adults, that’s where the next chapter comes in because older adults, I’m always amazed. I mean, there are some people that become artists when they get older and I’m talking not just like stick figures. I’m talking beautiful artwork or they start writing poetry or they start writing plays or they start working out. They start going swimming. They start doing stuff that people, you know, they say, oh, she’ll never do that. All she does is watch TV. Give your loved one a chance.

My old boss, who was the one that worked at the farm shop, he taught me. He said, I remember one time I was maybe kind of giving up on someone. He was like, Siobhan, wouldn’t you want that, you know, when you get older, for someone to give you that chance?

And that sticks in my head. So I always try to push it a little bit and go, you know what? Let’s give that a try.

Speaker 1
Boy, if more people could live like that, where you treat others the way that you yourself would want to be treated. You mentioned something, though, and it sparked a question for me. The name of this show is Your Next Chapter, right? Why? Why did you name this show Your Next Chapter?

Speaker 2
Because I truly believe in older adults. I’m one of those people that used to walk around, you know, Walmart or the store or driving and think that older adults just appear. It’s something in our head that’s just like this person was always like 80 or this person was always like 70.

And as I started working in the industry, I realized, wait a minute, this person lived a whole life. I remember sitting with this lady. She was so funny.

I mean, she was, you know, with the sweater, the whole, you know, old lady thing going on or older adult person going on. And you’re thinking, wow, she’s just a sweetheart. And she is.

She started telling me, oh, I used to sneak into dances. Oh, yeah, we used to hide cigarettes in the little crevice of the fence. And she met her husband because he was out there smoking, too.

And I was like, you know, because I asked her, how did you meet your husband? And I’m thinking I’m going to get this little sweet story where she was walking with the flowers in the field.

Speaker 1
And no, she was like, oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2
So she was a person.

Speaker 1
Right. You know, I remember I was having a conversation with with an elderly couple one time and I didn’t know them, but I would see them regularly at a coffee shop and cute as a button. You know, they’re just sitting there all the time like, wow, this is you married.

And I got to know them after a while. We’ve been married for, you know, almost like 50 years. And she goes, what would you like to see a picture of our wedding day?

And I said, of course I do. She gets into her wallet. Siobhan, let me tell you something.

The woman was a knockout. I’m like, so this is you. And I’m like, wow.

And you’re right. We forget that they were once young. When I was a kid growing up, there was George Burns.

He was an old guy. And then later on, I’d become an adult. And he’s around.

He’s still an old guy. I think this guy just came out of the womb, an old guy. Exactly.

Speaker 2
Exactly. And so you gained, for me, I gained this new respect for older adults. And I love hearing the stories.

And I love, like, when they say, come on into their apartments, and I get to see, like you said, those photos. And your eyes sometimes are like, whoa. I mean, these, you know, they had this life.

So that was, you know, chapter, you know, one through 30 or whatever it is. But it’s not done. You’re still here.

We’re still here, and we’re still breathing. We have more chapters, and we have more purpose, and we have more life to live. And so the saddest thing is when, you know, you have these old stories come in and the older adults been, you know, especially during COVID, you know, sitting in front of the TV, you know, eating TV dinners or whatever it may be.

And the happiest thing that I love is when someone comes in, they’re a new resident, and they have their first experience in the dining room. Because that’s usually like the first bring you out of your shell kind of thing. And I walk by the dining room and I look in and they’re sitting there sitting with maybe like three or four other people and they’re laughing.

They’re eating their food and it’s just they’re engaged. And then every day you go by and maybe they’re going out in activity or walk and little by little they come to life. The best day is when they say to their family members, say they’re coming to pick them up for, I don’t know, you know, some holiday or something.

Oh, we’re picking them up like it’s such a treat. And the loved one’s like, yeah, we’re going to stay here. You know, can you drop me off at two because they’re having the happy hour or they’re having a special function.

And the loved one’s like, whoa, like I’m your special treat. And they’re like, no, no, I have a life, you know, and I want to stay here. And that’s what to me, that’s what gives me joy in my heart is to see them come to life and have those next chapters.

Speaker 1
You know, the things we can learn from our seniors.

Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. The wisdom.

Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. And I’m sure this is kind of a silly. Of course you have.

This is your wheelhouse. You sat you sit down with them on a regular basis. But, you know, one of the joys that I have had in my life and still do to this day is is interacting with seniors.

Again, there’s a coffee house that I go to nearly every day. And I meet with different people there and so on and so forth. And you see a lot of the regulars.

And let’s face it, a lot of the regulars are seniors. They’re retired. And the wealth of knowledge, Siobhan, that they possess.

And you sit there and you don’t think that they can relate to you. But shame on us for thinking that because they’ll pick something up. What’s wrong?

I can tell something’s wrong with you, Gary. What’s wrong? You look like you have a lot on your mind.

Well, let me run something by you. And if I’m boring you, then I’ll stop. No, go ahead, Gary.

Go ahead. And I’ll run something by them. It could be, let’s say, something at work.

Something happened. Yeah. Hmm.

I’ve had a similar incident. Let me tell you how I handled it. And they’ll tell me.

Now, will it be on point 100%? No. Of course, every situation is different. But there’s usually a lesson that you can apply and you can learn from, you know, their experience and you can apply to your own, even if it’s just a portion of it, you know, and it’s often, Gary, the best, my best advice to you would to be, don’t be so emotional up front.

Take a day. Don’t send the letter. Don’t send the email.

You’re too full of emotion and you’re going to regret a lot of the things that you put in there. Take a few deep breaths, sleep on it. Revisit in a day, maybe two.

And you’ll notice your tone will be a lot different. And you won’t have to make apologies later on that you said something that you didn’t mean. And I’m like, yes, you’re right.

Yep. Maybe I shouldn’t send that email. It’s just, I’m sorry, I’m kind of getting off on a tangent.

Speaker 2
No, I love it. I love it. It’s so true.

I truly believe in that. And it’s almost like the, I think of like the sages, I guess, you know, the older people. People back in the day, like back in ancient times, used to go to the older people to get their knowledge.

And now we don’t. Now we’ll go to some younger person, like our friend, and be like, and, you know, be venting. And then their advice is obviously, you know, skewed because they’ll be like, oh, leave him or, oh, do this or, oh, yell at them or, you know, something as opposed to like someone who’s going to listen, who’s been there, done that.

Speaker 1
Right. You just said it.

Speaker 2
And they listen. And they listen to what you’re saying and remember.

Speaker 1
But you just said it. They’ve been there, done that. Your friend who is biased because they’re your friend.

Speaker 2
Is your peer.

Speaker 1
Right. But they may never have gone through what you’re going through. What a great book. Folks, you are, you’re listening to your next chapter about senior living. It’s a production from Avery Heights, by the way. We are talking to Siobhan Mattingly. I’m Gary Byron. What are the what ifs of senior living? We talked about that at the beginning of the show. I’m curious to know.

Speaker 2
Yeah. So there are tons of them. I actually have my little notes here. So there are tons of them.

You know, inevitably when I go on a tour and especially if it’s the whole family, you know, if you have all the siblings and so forth, there’s always lots of questions, which is great. Always come to the table, lots of questions. And then you start the what ifs.

And it’s always I always feel bad because it’s like I don’t always have the answers, but I have potential answers, you know. So the what ifs is like, what if they have to go to skilled nursing? What if they run out of money?

What if they need memory care? What if I need help? What if my loved one gets worse?

What if I need additional care? What if they need therapy? What if I don’t ask all the questions?

That’s the one that always gets me in the end. They go, did I ask all the questions? What if I didn’t?

Their brain is probably saying, what if I didn’t ask all the questions? And they ask me, did they ask all the questions? And I always want to reassure them.

And the thing that I love is that I feel like Avery has answers those what ifs. And that’s what I love about working there. So what if they go to skilled nursing?

We have skilled nursing. We have a wonderful social worker, Roseanne, who can walk them through that process, help them through the Medicaid process, help them with the forms, talk to our skilled nursing. There’s a continuum of care where the skilled nursing folks will come over and do an assessment.

So there’s a nice, smooth transaction. I’ve seen some of our staff literally have dollies moving people, literally helping them move because maybe the family is out of state or out of town. So that’s what I love is that there’s the answer to that question.

What if you run out of money? That’s the same answer. We have intermediate care where someone can take advantage of Title 19 or something to that effect.

What if memory care? We have memory care. What if I need help?

Again, there’s Roseanne. There’s me. There’s the front desk.

There’s our nurses. There’s our aides. What if my loved one gets worse?

Again, we have those answers too. I mean we have a doctor that comes in and they can – it can be their doctor. They don’t have to necessarily – they can use their PCP or their primary care physician in the community, but they can also use the doctor that comes into Avery Heights.

And that makes life easier for them because like in the winter especially. What if I need additional care? We have our own private duty aids.

We have our own V&A services. And again, what if I didn’t ask all the questions? My goal as their first person that they meet is to make sure that I answer all the questions that they have for me and help them to come up with the questions that they didn’t ask.

Speaker 1
How? How does Avery Heights, how do you answer their what ifs?

Speaker 2
When you’ve been around, as long as I’ve been around in the industry, I’ve experienced so many different scenarios. And everyone always thinks they have the unique scenario. And I feel bad when I feel bad when they start talking about it.

I’m like – in my head I’m thinking, oh my gosh, I’ve heard this before. And I don’t want to be rude and go, that’s not unique. Your loved one is not unique.

But I have the answers in my head. If I don’t have them, I reach out to my other resources. And Avery Heights has been around for 60 years.

We’re one of the original senior living communities or campuses that were out there. Now some people can say, oh my gosh, that means it’s old and blah, blah, blah. But it’s not.

Avery Heights has evolved with the times. Sure, of course. and has become kept up with the times and kept up with the new stuff that’s out there.

But there’s something to be said about that experience and that wisdom.

Speaker 1
How does a person know that either they or their loved one is ready for senior living and that whole senior living community and experience?

Speaker 2
Well, a lot of things is if they’re at home, if they’re sitting at home watching TV, If they’re not really out and about doing any kind of activities like they used to, they could be compromised in the sense maybe they’re not mobile anymore. Or maybe they are starting to have signs of dementia, so they don’t want to hang out with their friends at the senior center. So if they’re starting to just kind of isolate.

If they’re not taking their medication properly. It’s so hard. There are so many medications.

And if they’re taking things twice or not taking things properly, that can be a concern. Again, if they’re having mobility issues, if they’re not showering, if they’re not taking care of themselves, if they’re not doing their personal grooming, if they’re not eating right, if they go to the doctor and their sodium is off the hook because they’re having TV dinners or canned soup, that’s not good. If they have the need to – oh, if they’re not taking care of their bills.

So if they’re not – a lot of times if something is not getting paid, their rent or their electric bill or if they’re buying a lot of stuff. A lot of times people unfortunately with – it’s so – some of these on television selling stuff. I don’t want to say the name of it like selling clothing or what have you.

Sometimes older adults will stay up late at night. They have that credit card and they’ll pile up this stuff that’s not even open. You know, if they’re hoarding.

Oh, hoarding, yes. Yep, they’re hoarding. You know, so those are kind of some of the signs that if the caregiver, it’s become too much for them.

So, for example, if there’s a husband and wife situation and the husband or the wife are taking care of the person who is having some medical challenges and it’s just too much. If they’re calling their kids every day and the kids are having to come over because so-and-so fell or they’re wandering or whatever, it’s too much for that spouse. And what happens a lot of time is it’s the spouse that ends up either unfortunately passing away or having their medical – their health challenged.

Speaker 1
And that’s really sad. When we talk about the signs, we could probably, and I’m running out of time, and there’s one more question I wanted to ask you, but we could probably do a whole show. I mean, I can’t imagine anything more important, I think, because it’s preliminary. It’s before a person even enters Avery Heights, signs that we should be looking out for.

Speaker 2
Definitely. And don’t wait too long.

Speaker 1
Well, yeah. Well, of course, for the reasons you just mentioned.

Speaker 2
Yeah, because people try to push it, and when you push it, the person just gets worse and worse and worse. And unfortunately, when they get to the assisted living or the independent, they can’t really take advantage of what’s there. And it’s sad to see that when someone comes in too late because, you know, because the family and I get it.

Again, that shame and that guilt. But you have to realize that you’re doing what’s best for them. The family member, there’s always that, especially from back in day, that threat of, you know, I don’t want to leave my home.

I always hear that. And I get that. Who would want to?

But as the loved one, the adult child or the caregiver at that point, you have to say, you know what? I know you don’t want to leave, but this is what’s best.

Speaker 1
I’ve only got like a minute left.

Speaker 2
Oh, sorry.

Speaker 1
Can you just really quickly maybe give some tips for folks who are starting that whole senior living search?

Speaker 2
Yep, yep. So definitely get professional help. Talk to the doctor, geriatric care managers, elder law attorneys, senior living advisors, financial planners.

Try the website AARP. They have a really comprehensive list of questions, how to get started. Take tours and tour again.

Don’t decide on your first tour because we’re all very nice people. Don’t get imprinted on the first place you go. Make a pros and cons list of each place.

And listen to your gut before you listen to your wallet. Now, the financials is very important. Can I afford it?

But go with, hey, this is the place that I like. And then go back to that person and say, hey, I like your place. How can we make it work?

Before you go for the place that’s cheaper. or before you go for the place that’s down the street from you. And this is more talking to the adult child when they’re looking for their loved one.

Try to listen to more what you actually liked as opposed to thinking of the financials to begin with.

Speaker 1
Folks, if you’d like more information on this topic, a couple of recommendations I have for you. Number one, you’re going to want to tune in the same day, same time next week, and we’ll pick up where we left off. But I also want you to check out Avery Height’s website.

It’s very simple. It’s www.averyheights.org. And Avery is A-V-E-R-Y. Heights is H-E-I-G-H-T-S. Averyheights.org.

There’s also a phone number that I think you should write down. And maybe keep this in a drawer. Don’t just discard this.

You’re going to want to keep this close. 866-537-1444. A very easy number for you.

Again, it’s 866-537-1444. For Siobhan Mattingly, I’m Gary Byron. Thank you so much for listening to your next chapter, Senior Living, an Avery Heights production.

Until next Saturday, have a good one, everybody. So long.