Speaker 1
Good Saturday morning to everybody and welcome to your next chapter of production of The Heights at Avery Heights, a one-of-a-kind senior living community, centrally located near the most entertaining and historical spots in Connecticut. It is never too late to grow and enjoy new realms of the mind and heart. Your next chapter delves deep into topics that will improve the way that we think about aging, about senior living, and the retirement years.

It is time to celebrate our seniors and give them wholehearted encouragement to bravely step up to new experiences with optimism, with inner peace, and the courage to never give up on growing. We will discuss exciting opportunities, important resources for older adults, financial well-being, senior living communities, and emotional health. Along with senior living specialist, Siobhan Mattingly, I’m Gary Byron.

Good morning, Siobhan.

Speaker 2
Good morning. I love your radio voice.

Speaker 1
It’s my radio voice? I don’t really.

Speaker 2
You have your conversational, you have a conversational radio voice and then you have like a radio voice when you’re doing the intro. I had no idea. Yeah. It’s awesome.

Speaker 1
This is just how I talk.

Speaker 2
All the time, like in the store?

Speaker 1
Yes, actually. Ham and cheese. I’ll never forget the time I was, actually, I was getting deli meats at the supermarket.

Yeah, yeah. And this is a while. This has got to be old.

I was in television at the time. I wasn’t even in radio. I was in radio in the 90s. And then I was in, and then I went to Fox.

And then I was getting deli meats and somebody goes, are you a game show host? And I go, no, come on. She’s like, oh my goodness, your voice sounds so familiar.

And no, it’s just.

Speaker 2
I’ve been watching Bewitched. And it’s funny when you watch those old shows, how they kind of, you know, acting was different back then. It was very.

Speaker 1
Elizabeth Montgomery.

Speaker 2
Yes, yes. Yes, of course. But it was different.

Speaker 1
What did she do? Like this? No, no, no.

Speaker 2
Wiggled her nose. Yeah, wiggled her nose, right.

Speaker 1
She wasn’t the one that went like, no, that was I Dream of Jeannie.

Speaker 2
Yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1
Barbara Eden.

Speaker 2
Right, right. Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1
And wasn’t Larry Hagman? Yeah.

Speaker 2
Who was Dallas?

Speaker 1
Dallas. J.R. Ewing.

Who killed J.R. Yeah. Going back to Elizabeth Montgomery.

Are you Dick York or Dick Sargent?

Speaker 2
Oh, I don’t know because I just started re-watching it. And I’m watching it with my daughter, who she loves it. She’s like, she’s loving it.

Speaker 1
Dick York.

Speaker 2
Really? Yeah.

Speaker 1
I like the first Dick.

Speaker 2
Yeah.

Speaker 1
Yeah.

Speaker 2
I can’t decide. I can’t decide. I’ll have to see the other one again.

But it is fun to watch. Esmeralda? Esmeralda.

I love her. With the eye shadow. I can’t believe how much eye shadow.

And the hair.

Speaker 1
Yeah.

Speaker 2
Thick. Yeah.

Speaker 1
Thick.

Speaker 2
It’s such a simple show. No, I’ve never seen the show.

Speaker 1
Was it good? No.

Speaker 2
Do you watch it on TV land? No. Nick at Night. On Amazon.

Amazon. Oh, on Amazon. Yeah, it’s on Freebie or Freebie or something.

Some station. Well, no, Amazon has its own channel. Amazon Prime, right?

Right, but they have channels within their channels, like Showtime and Starz. They’re all within there. Yeah.

Oh.

Speaker 1
Really? Yes. Geez, I hate to be thinking I’m paying for something twice.

Oh, right. Because I get HBO and Cinemax and Showtime. Well, you still have to pay for them.

But I also have Amazon Prime. So if you’re telling me I already get those channels in Amazon Prime, then why am I double?

Speaker 2
Well, you still have to pay for them inside of Amazon Prime. Oh. I don’t know if they’re cheaper inside of Amazon. I don’t know.

Speaker 1
My bill. Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2
Do you have Cox? I don’t have cable.

Speaker 1
Oh, because you have Amazon Prime.

Speaker 2
Yeah, Roku.

Speaker 1
I got it. Let me tell you something.

Speaker 2
I just did that two years ago.

Speaker 1
I need to do that. I need to cut that cord. Seriously.

Because if I get internet, I got rid of my local landline phone. Cable’s expensive. And I save $5.

I’m like, that’s it?

Speaker 2
Don’t you, isn’t that such a disappointment? You’re like, oh, I’ll get rid of this and I’m going to save you so much money. I got two thirds.

Speaker 1
I got rid of one third. I’m just getting it. Exactly. All I’d say was $5.

Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1
My cable bill, I’m embarrassed to say this. $2.45 a month.

Speaker 2
Oh, what do you have? Okay. There’s never anything on. That’s why I got rid of cable because you’re on station 4,000.

Speaker 1
You’re so right. And nothing is on. You’re so right.

I have, matter of fact, Cox can’t sell me anything anymore. They’ll go, you have everything. I’ve got the highest speed internet.

I’ve got every channel known to man other than the ethnic stations, which I don’t know what they’re saying anyway, so I don’t need them.

Speaker 2
Right.

Speaker 1
So I’ve got every channel that they could possibly sell me, that I could utilize.

Speaker 2
You don’t watch the Telenabellas? Am I saying that right?

Speaker 1
The soap operas? Telenabellas? The Spanish.

Speaker 2
No. The Spanish soap operas.

Speaker 1
Oh, Telemundo. Those are good.

Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Those are good.

They. My next-door neighbor used to watch them. Yeah.

Those are, yeah. There’s a lot going on.

Speaker 1
You ever watch Sonia Live? She hasn’t been on in a while. No. Oh, that was some topics on that. She was like the Sally Jesse Raphael in the Hispanic community. Oh, wow.

Speaker 2
No, I never.

Speaker 1
Sonia.

Speaker 2
I don’t think. Yeah.

Speaker 1
Sonia Live, it was called. Holy smokes. Because they used to have the, you could, you know, transfer.

You see what they were talking about, you know. They translate it in the lower thirds, in the subtitles. Yeah, yeah.

And I was like, holy smokes. This is the middle of the afternoon. So you brought a guest in with you today.

I did. That’s great. Why don’t you take the liberty to introduce him?

Speaker 2
So this is Dr. Kevin Manning from UConn Pepper Center, and he’s amazing. I actually asked him to send me like a bio and questions and so forth, and it was like the best one I’ve gotten so far. He did a great job.

Speaker 1
Well, welcome, Doc.

Speaker 2
Hey, thank you. I’m not impressed with the fact that he’s a doctor, but that he does. What was that? I’m not impressed with the fact that he’s a doctor, but that he sent me the information. That I can write my own bio.

Speaker 1
Thanks for having me. Multi-talented, I see. That’s great.

Well, I’m going to ask you about yourself in just one moment. But you had me thrown with the Pepper Center. I am not familiar with the Pepper Center.

Forgive me. Of course, if I should be, I would imagine why hasn’t this even come up in like a general conversation? Enlighten us.

What is the Pepper Center?

Speaker 3
Yeah, happy to. So the Pepper Older Americans Independent Center at UConn is one of 15 such centers throughout the United States funded by the National Institute on Aging. And these centers were named in honor of Claude D. Pepper, the late senator from Florida, who advocated for senior health and research to help older adults maintain or restore their independence.

And the overarching goal of the Pepper Center, or the Pepper Program, is to enhance function and independence in older adults. And at UConn, we’re pioneering a theme called precision gerontology. And this is a mouthful, so bear with me, okay?

So precision gerontology, an approach to aging research in the care of older adults that seeks to render interventions enhancing function and independence more effective through an improved understanding of heterogeneity and more precise targeting.

Speaker 1
I don’t even know what any of this is.

Speaker 3
I’m going to tell you right now. Okay. I’m glad I’m not the only one.

So there’s so much variability in aging. Okay. We want to know what works for who and why.

So why does one treatment work for one person doesn’t work for another person? That’s the goal of the Pepper Program.

Speaker 1
Right? That’s pretty cool. Yeah. How come more people – forgive me. Why aren’t people familiar with this?

Speaker 3
You know, UConn had this Pepper Center many years ago, over 20 years ago, and then recently within the last year or two has reclaimed that center of status. So it’s relatively new to answer your question.

Speaker 1
Well, it kind of was there and then it went away and then it’s now back. Exactly. Tell me a little bit about yourself before I start delving into some questions.

Speaker 3
Sure. So I’m what’s called a clinical neuropsychologist. That means I specialize in brain behavior relationships.

My interest is in working with older adults who have cognitive problems or mood disturbances, depression, anxiety. I’m interested in how mood and cognition impact everyday functioning, like automobile driving or financial health, financial capacity. Wow.

I got into this work, like so many of us, have it been impacted by Alzheimer’s disease or dementia in our families.

Speaker 1
I’m going to pause you right there. Yeah, please. Siobhan, it seems like, and yourself included, I mean, this is how a lot of people enter this field.

I mean, you had Lisa was here. She wrote a book about her husband. Yes.

We had another guest from Massachusetts, I believe, that was on via phone. This is several weeks ago.

Speaker 2
Yes.

Speaker 1
These are people who have now either changed professions or have gone into the profession in somewhere dealing with Alzheimer’s and working with seniors because they, and yourself including because you are directly affected by it affect you personally you with your mom um others with their husband their spouse so on and so forth that’s it seems to be kind of on par here as far as how people get into you yourself doc was how are you affected by it if you don’t mind no not at

Speaker 3
all so my my grandmother had alzheimer’s disease and passed away um and her son my uncle now has Alzheimer’s disease. And, you know, working with so many patients as a clinician, you start to see warning signs about cognitive changes early. And it often has seemed that one of those warning signs is poor financial decision making, that the inability to manage one’s finances or making poor decisions, giving money to somebody they shouldn’t have given money to.

Yeah, but you can be, anybody can be scammed. Anybody can be scammed, but it does seem to happen more in older adults with cognitive impairment. And that’s how I got interested in this topic.

Speaker 1
When somebody comes up, how do I put this? Do you ever have a brain cramp? You know, you know, in your moment.

Yeah. I mean, it could be a middle age moment. Yeah, right.

But, you know, because I find myself. Oh, my goodness. What’s the word I’m looking for?

Or where the hell was I? Or, geez, what did I have for dinner the other night? Or standing in front of the fridge.

Like, why did I come here? Or walking into the kitchen going, the grocery store. I remember going to the grocery store and going, geez, I bought five items except for the one that I came here for.

And then I’m turning the car around and going, what in the hell is wrong with me? That’s not Alzheimer’s.

Speaker 3
That’s normal.

Speaker 1
Okay, thank you, Doc.

Speaker 3
That’s normal, AJ. You’re welcome. That would be $500.

Speaker 1
Right? So that is normal. Those are just every – is it because we’re just – so many things are thrown at us that we’re having a hard time processing everything?

Speaker 3
Yeah, I think that has something to do with it, and I also think – I know the brain ages. It’s an organ. So you don’t run as fast as you did when you’re 19, 20. You don’t think it’s fast.

Speaker 1
Okay. That is true then. It’s a relationship.

All right. Please continue because I interrupted you. I’m sorry.

Speaker 3
You don’t remember what you’re saying? I don’t remember. There’s my middle-aged moment.

Speaker 1
Oh, come on. What was I saying? You forgot where you left off.

Exactly. I mean, look, I mean, obviously the center does so much. But our topic, of course, today is elder financial health.

So, Doc, what should older adults be aware of when it comes to financial health? Because you already mentioned it. That’s like a first sign.

Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean, older adults should continue to educate themselves on the topic of financial well-being. And this means recognizing examples of exploitation and financial fraud, as well as being concerned about improving their financial well-being. You’ll hear me say this, information is key. So getting as much education and information as they can on the topic.

Speaker 1
I hate when people take advantage of the elderly. Whether or not you have Alzheimer’s or some cognitive disorder, they’re a vulnerable portion of our population as it is.

Speaker 2
And they don’t talk about it either.

Speaker 1
No, because they’re embarrassed. Which makes it worse. Yes, and they’re not aware of it happening.

Exactly. Well, yeah, especially initially. They’re unaware of it.

And then when they finally, I think if they’re able to connect the dots and they go, oh, my goodness, I’ve been swindled. I better not let my son know, my wife know, my daughter know. then maybe break it down for us. People are obviously familiar with the terms exploitation and fraud, but what does it mean to be that victim of financial exploitation or even financial fraud? Yeah, sure. So financial exploitation, put simply, is theft. It’s taking

Speaker 3
advantage of somebody. It’s a type of elder abuse that refers to the illegal or improper use of someone else’s property, income, resources. Taking advantage of them.

Taking advantage of them. This often happens in a relationship built on trust. So a caregiver or a family member who is using somebody else’s resources without their permission, fraud is deception, trying to deceive somebody into buying something or giving money for a purpose other than what is supposedly intended.

And then, you know, older adults are still at risk for identity theft when somebody steals their personal information.

Speaker 1
So identity theft is illegal.

Speaker 3
Fraud is illegal. Exploitation is illegal.

Speaker 1
Exploitation is. But taking advantage of someone is not illegal. This happens, I think, everybody to some degree.

And if we’re going to be truthful with each other, we’ve all been on both sides of that. Have I ever taken advantage of somebody? Sure.

And have I been taken advantage of? Oh, I know I have been. It’s wrong, and it’s immoral, but is it illegal?

Speaker 3
No. It’s not illegal taking advantage of somebody, I think, in the way that you mean. But financial exploitation is taking advantage of somebody that involves theft. And manipulation?

Could involve manipulation. You know, one example is for older adults who are vulnerable, perhaps they give power of attorney to somebody. So they sign over the right to access that person’s funds or bank account.

And there’s an agreement through that power of attorney that they’re going to do this in an honorable, straightforward way. But there’s nothing really stopping somebody who has power of attorney to come in and take somebody else’s resources or money. That’s not really manipulation.

That’s theft, right? That’s just straight out theft.

Speaker 2
And we see it all the time when we have kids that might live here maybe in Connecticut and maybe their loved one lives in Florida or South Carolina and then the neighbor will become power of attorney and literally take advantage of that older adult, take their money, put them in a home, put them in maybe an assisted living there or something like that. And then the kids are trying to figure this out legally and it’s just a disaster. And I’ve seen that so many times, and it is very sad.

Speaker 1
So then what places an older adult more at risk than, let’s say, somebody middle-aged?

Speaker 3
Yeah. There are cognitive changes and social changes that occur with aging. Clearly, cognitive decline, cognitive impairment puts somebody at risk for exploitation and fraud.

Social changes, loneliness, depression, isolation, those put people at risk. Disability, medical burden. So we know that people who are disabled who can’t care for themselves, who have several comorbid illnesses, they’re at greater risk of financial exploitation, financial fraud.

Speaker 1
This is sad. Yeah, it is. How prevalent is this?

Speaker 3
So any estimate I’m going to give you is probably an underestimate, right? But we think that this documented cases occur anywhere from 3% to 10% of older adults in the last year. And we think that’s an underreporting for the reasons you touched on before, that people are embarrassed, that they don’t want to report this.

They don’t want to report this to somebody that they trust. So if this occurs in the context of a familial relationship or this occurs in the context of a caregiver who they depend on, they don’t want to report that person. So we think any estimates we have are probably underestimates.

Speaker 1
You know, I just wish that there were signs, you know, you would I’d you’d mentioned a moment ago, you know, of the financial signs. But before – I wish there were signs even before it got to the – you know what I’m saying? I do. Before the financial signs that –

Speaker 3
So you really touch on a great point and something I think a lot about is if we think about depression and cognitive changes as risk factors for functional decline, how do we get people to do a checkup to sort of say to themselves, hey, I need to talk to somebody. I’m feeling depressed or do I have depression? What is depression?

Do I have cognitive impairment that’s greater than middle age or later life expectation? I don’t know the best way to address that. But what I what I think about is talking to somebody’s physician, talking to family members, you know, getting evaluated, talking with your doctor about, hey, can can you refer me for some battery of testing or some questions?

so I can learn more about my mental health, my cognitive health, and determine whether I’m at risk for something like poor financial decision making.

Speaker 1
I just hate to know that someone has already lost a portion of their income or wealth or savings if there was a telltale sign prior to that so it wouldn’t get to that point. Like you said, this checkup, you know, you might as well mention depression. Sadly, there’s so many people who suffer from depression who may not be clinically diagnosed.

Correct. And may not even be at a point where they’re even at a, that they can admit to themselves that they’re under depression. But yet they suffer from it.

In which case, and sadly, it’s often too late.

Speaker 2
Yeah.

Speaker 1
Folks, you are listening to your next chapter, a production of The Heights at Avery Heights. Along with Siobhan Mattingly, I’m Gary Byer, and our guest this morning is Dr. Kevin Manning from the UConn Pepper Center. How then? I mean, how can someone protect themselves, Doc, from fraud and exploitation? Yeah.

Speaker 3
So information is your best friend, your best defense against fraud. So there’s a couple of great programs that aren’t part of UConn but are part of the state of Connecticut, part of the federal government. So the Money Smart for Older Adults program that was developed by the FDIC and the Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection raises awareness among older adults and their caregivers on how to prevent financial exploitation and fraud.

Locally, the state of Connecticut Department of Banking has a wonderful website devoted to consumer information and education resources. This includes education for investors, tips for protecting oneself from fraud, and a special section devoted to seniors. And then touching on what we were just talking about, I think at the individual level, this checkup might involve asking yourself some questions.

If you’re concerned about a family member or yourself even, start to ask yourself some questions. And those questions are, are you socially isolated? Do you feel depressed, lonely?

People might not be able to define depression, but they can define loneliness. Have you experienced a change in the ability to care for yourself? Do you depend on somebody else to care for you? Are you comfortable with that relationship? Do you trust that person?

Have you recently lost a loved one, a spouse, another family member? Have you given power of attorney to somebody? Those are some questions. Some other questions from a financial perspective are, do you run out of money by the end of the month? Do you worry about financial decisions made. Do you understand your bills? Do you understand the financial decisions you’re being asked to make? Is somebody pressuring you to lend them money? Yeah. Or co-signing. Or co-signing.

Speaker 1
Yeah. So you see patients. Are you also you yourself conducting research?

Speaker 3
Yeah, that’s right. So through the Pepper Center, we have a pilot project on financial capacity, financial decision making in older adults. We’re particularly interested in older adults who suffer from depression, who have a type of depression known as apathy or a lack of motivation, lack of effort to get going. We’re concerned that those older adults might be at the greatest risk for functional decline, cognitive decline. So we’re conducting a study on financial capacity.

Speaker 1
And the depression is more often precipitated by loneliness, right?

Speaker 3
It’s a really good, it’s a very good point. Certainly psychosocial stressors, loneliness increase our risk for depression. We know that social support is a very strong risk factor for depression.

Not everybody who’s depressed feels lonely or has poor social support, right? We think about depression as a biological illness. There could be many causes for it.

Certainly one’s environment interacts with our genes to cause that illness. What qualifies a subject?

Speaker 1
How do we get involved in your research?

Speaker 3
Yeah, thanks. So we’re interested in really all older adults, those with and without depression. So you don’t have to have depression to participate in the study.

You have to be 60 years of age or older, not currently have a diagnosis of dementia because we want to really study the earliest changes in aging and functional decline. But otherwise, there’s not much that would keep people from participating. And they can always call me directly if they’re interested.

That’s 860-679-2272.

Speaker 1
And finally, because I want to bring Siobhan back into this, just finding out more information or getting involved with the center and the research that’s being done.

Speaker 3
Yeah, so we have a great website. I’ll make sure I’ll be included in the show notes. And there’s many other studies at the Pepper Center that are ongoing and really studying a variety of topics from basic research to exercise research to different types of treatments for older adults.

Speaker 2
And driving too. And driving. Yeah.

Speaker 3
And we do some stuff in automobile driving as well. Yeah.

Speaker 2
And a simulator, right?

Speaker 3
We do.

Speaker 2
Yeah, we do. We do have a cool. I’m like a little kid. We do.

Speaker 3
Come over and try it out. We do have a simulator.

Speaker 2
I’d be afraid to because they probably would take my license.

Speaker 1
Siobhan, what you see at Avery Heights, and what Kevin is saying is, do you see it firsthand on the grounds of Avery Heights since you’re there five days a week? Do you see a lot of this?

Speaker 2
Usually before. So like I said, like we have when the adult children come in and they’re doing the tours. These are when you hear the sad stories.

The worst one I heard was a couple weeks ago. A gentleman came in. He was in a different state.

you know, beautiful house he had and all this stuff. And so they decided they wanted to downsize and go to an assisted living. And they signed a, it was a year long contract.

Come to find out that was what they had to give for notice. So he ended up having to pay, went to go see a lawyer after the fact, but he had to pay every month $8,000 for a year because that’s the notice. And the, you know, the assisted living wouldn’t let him, because, you know, his wife was kind of like, she decided she didn’t want to go anymore.

And so he had to end up paying that. And that’s really sad. And this guy was sitting there.

I mean, this is like a guy who plays golf. Maybe he was like – I think he was like in his 70s. And he literally – his eyes started to tear up. And that was so challenging for me because I can’t sit there.

It’s not about me. I’m not going to sit there and start crying. But it was the saddest thing I’ve ever seen.

And his embarrassment and even just telling me this story, I was just like – I thought to myself if it was us. We don’t have a year-long – you can give a 60-day or 30-day notice. I understand the rules.

I understand them. But I would think they’d at least maybe two months. They can re-rent the place.

But it was really sad. That’s a lot of money. Oh, it is.

Speaker 1
I just wish people in a perfect world stay more active. And it’s hard to do that when you’re alone. Yes.

But it’s not impossible. There’s a difference between lonely and being independent. There’s a sadness that’s associated with being lonely.

But independent. There’s plenty of people at any age that go to the movies and out to dinner by themselves. And by the way, by design.

Sometimes they prefer it.

Speaker 2
The best company we keep.

Speaker 1
Being alone doesn’t mean your own way. Well, that’s true.

Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1
Boy, I could have done, actually, we’re at the end of our time this morning. But wow. Amazing.

We’ve got to get him back. My pleasure. There’s other things that we’ve kind of delved into.

Folks, you’ve been listening to the latest edition of your next chapter, Senior Living with Siobhan Mattingly, the Heights Senior Living Specialist. Avery Heights is a beautiful senior living community nestled within 43 acres of nature, right in the heart of the junction between West Hartford, Newington and Hartford. Those who live there have access to a full continuum of care, including independent and assisted living to memory care in a whole lot more charming cottages.

with a true neighborhood feel. They’re all available to rent adjacent to the main building where those who need more assistance reside. Please visit AveryHeights.org or by calling 860-953-1201.

That’s 860-953-1201. This is to learn more about their own very special brand of community, unlike any other in Connecticut. it i’d like to thank our guests this morning dr kevin manning from the yukon pepper center one

Speaker 3
more time the website and phone number 670-679-2272 and the phone number oh the phone number the website oh the website the website is yukon pepper center i’m losing it’ll be at your place tomorrow

Speaker 1
right early by the way i’m gary byron until next weekend have a good one everybody so long